Below we present a composite write up of three interviews with Ehsan Ali by Qalandar Bux Memon, Haider Ali, and Sonia Qadir.  The interviews took place between 2015 and 2022.  Comrade Ehsan Ali is a Marxist leader from Gilgit-Baltistan and member of Inqalabi Communist Party. He is the founder of Gilgit-Baltistan Awami Action Committee and is currently under-arrest. We demand his immediate release.

Interview Setting
Gilgit, Ehsan Ali’s office

Ehsan came wearing a black suit with a white shirt that is the uniform for lawyers in Pakistan and he excitedly greeted me. Ehsan Ali is young whatever his age is. If he is 50 then he looks a good mid-40s something, if 40 then early 30s. He is about 5’ 8’’, with a prominent muscled upper body. I don’t think he does any gym work but he hits everyday with determination and works himself to exhaustion. As he arrived, he looked tired. He had spent another day in court fighting for activists to be released who were in detention under a draconian anti-terrorism-law and being tortured. After his warm greeting, he asked if I wanted a drink or food. I did. He ordered tea and pakoras after which we were both back up to speed and ready for the interview. I wanted to learn from Ehsan about the constitutional, political and legal history of the region. As he is also a Marxist, I had questions on the future of the class struggle in G-B as well. 

After the snack and tea, I turned on the recorder and we formally started the interview. I present the transcript of the interview: 

Governance of Whims

Qalandar Bux Memon:  Can you tell me a little about the evolution of how political systems and representation has worked in G-B. Currently you have the Gilgit Baltistan Legislative Assembly? What is it? How did it come to be and what powers does it have? 

Ehsan Ali: The foundation for the current assembly which has been given the name of Gilgit-Baltistan Qanoon Saaz Assembly (Gilgit-Baltistan Legislative Assembly/GBLA) is the Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self-Governance Order 2009 popularly known as GB Order 2009. It is just an executive order, issued by a Section Officer of the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs. This Governance Order is not protected. It does not carry the protection of any law or constitution.

Let us go over the history of governance to see how we got to this assembly.

After the British left, Major Brown who was the British Political Agent in Gilgit, held authority for some time. The local interim government shared power with him. The civilian set up was headed by Raja Shah Rais Khan. However, the command of the military forces i.e. the Gilgit Scouts, was in the hands of Major Brown which resulted in him keeping an upper hand. The same Major Brown, without consulting or taking into confidence the cabinet we had at partition and other leaders of the interim/provisional government, negotiated with the Pakistani government. He asked the latter to take over Gilgit-Baltistan. At the time, the only method for communications was a wireless set in Gilgit, which was also under the control of Major Brown. He used it to communicate with the Governor of North-West Frontier Province who was a Britisher and the then Chief Minister, Khan Abdul Qayyum. They forwarded those communications to the Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan. 

Rule by Political Agent

They decided to send a bureaucrat named Sardar Alam as a political agent to Gilgit-Baltistan. He reached Gilgit on 16 November 1947. Throughout this period, the provisional government had no idea of what Major Brown was up to. It was only when Sardar Alam reached Gilgit on 16 November that they became aware, and they were bewildered. Nevertheless, Sardar Alam took control as Political Agent and then all matters came under the authority of the several Political Agents who succeeded Sardar Alam until August 1972. So, from 1947 to 1972 the political agent held absolute authority and defined what is right and what is wrong. There was no local assembly, council, committee, or any other kind of consultation. Overall, the political agent commanded and controlled all matters.

Let me clarify one thing. Soon after taking control of Gilgit-Baltistan, Pakistan enforced Frontier Crime Regulation (FCR) here. It was after promulgation of the FCR that the Political Agent began to really exercise control. Under the FCR the political agent could appoint and rule through jirga and other structures. 

There was a huge movement in 1971 to end FCR. It was very radical. At one point, the leadership of the movement was arrested but the revolt/movement was so strong that people mobbed into the jail, breaking the locks, to get the leaders out. The army couldn’t really control the movement. There were several after-effects. 

Bhutto Further Empowers the Bureaucracy

After the fall of Bengal when Z.A. Bhutto was brought to power by the army, they were under pressure to put out revolts and calm things down across the country. It was then that Bhutto removed FCR in August 1972. 

Z.A. Bhutto went on to form an institution called the Northern Areas Advisory Council which consisted of 16 members with 8 elected members from G-B and 8 nominated by the Political Agent. Their powers stretched only to the extent that they were consulted about and allowed to submit proposals for decisions related to minor developmental schemes and projects. There was no deliberation with them in administrative, political, economic and planning matters. 

Then, in 1975, Z.A. Bhutto brought more reforms by removing the 8 nominated members and making the council a body of 16 members elected directly from Gilgit-Baltistan. He also changed its name to just the Northern Areas Council. Its position, however, remained the same – as an advisory body – despite the removal of that term from the full name. They had no legislative powers. 

In 1994 the government of Benazir Bhutto passed through a new package for GB called Legal Framework Order (LFO), and renamed the council as Northern Areas Legislative Council, increasing the number of members from 16 to 24. Their authorities extended over municipal level laws only. The council still lacked legislative authorities over administrative, planning, political and economic matters. 

In 2007, Pervez Musharraf renamed the council to ‘Assembly’, making it the Northern Areas Legislative Assembly. Then he established a seat by the name of the Chief Executive. The Minister of Kashmir Affairs, by virtue of oath, became the Chief Executive. While an elected member of the council/assembly became the Deputy Chief Executive. 

In 2009, the Zardari regime modified that further, renaming Northern Areas to Gilgit-Baltistan while enforcing a new reforms package called Gilgit-Baltistan Empowerment and Self-Governance Order, 2009, under which they created a pseudo-provincial structure similar to the one in Azad Jammu and Kashmir. They introduced the offices of the Governor, Chief Minister, IGP etc – similar to the structure in a province. But they also created a Gilgit-Baltistan Council as a more powerful body over the assembly – in the manner of the AJK Council. The Chairperson was the Prime Minister of Pakistan, and the Vice Chairperson was the Governor of GB. However, the PM was given the authority to nominate 6 members of that council from his own parliament or cabinet members, while 6 of them were to be nominated by the GBLA. So, in this system, the Prime Minister of Pakistan carried the upper hand with him being the Chairperson.

In summary, all legislative and administrative powers were initially held by the political agent, then transferred to the Minister of Kashmir Affairs and the package of 2009 transferred those powers to the GB Council and the PM instead of the Assembly. The Assembly still only holds powers over municipal laws. Structural changes have gradually happened but only in name. The real changes, in terms of legislation, policymaking, protection of fundamental rights, establishment of a free judiciary, and so on, were never brought about. 

As a result of the 2009 reforms package, they did bring some judicial reforms. However, the appointment of the judges or induction, as happens in mainstream Pakistan through independent Judicial Commissions on merit, does not happen in Gilgit-Baltistan. The governor proposes the names, and the Prime Minister makes the appointment. The governor, as far as we have observed, received names from the Prime Minister’s office asking him to propose those names! That is how they have been carrying out appointments.

QBM: What about the bureaucracy, are the locals represented in it?

EA: In 2009, a power-sharing formula was created for government offices/public service, whereby, the highest ranks of the civil service would have a percentage from Gilgit Baltistan.  So, in grade 17, 18% of the employees will come from the federation, in grade 18, 25%, in grade 19, 40% and in 20, 50%, and in 21, 65%.   

QBM: The rest will be locals?

EA: Yes. Now, even in this arrangement none of the key posts are allocated to the locals. From Assistant Commissioner and Commissioner to Home Secretary, all key administrative posts will be filled by people coming from Pakistan. For locals only nominal posts such as postings in far-flung areas are possible. What we see now, is what used to happen in India during British colonization. All big officers came from England and only the petty officers were locals. The same colonial system is in place for GB. All matters are controlled from Pakistan. 

Sham of an Assembly

As far as the assembly is concerned, currently, it is in the same position as the advisory council of the 1970s. The assembly holds sixty-one items on which it can legislate, and all these items are municipal laws. It includes things like building a street, enacting an electricity pole, building a graveyard, repairing streets, building water channels and such trivial matters. Just local bodies’ work and municipal laws. On the other hand, income from revenues including taxation are not in its remit and go to the Federal authorities. 

The most ridiculous thing is that this assembly doesn’t have authority in any way to amend the Governance Order 2009 that it is based upon. In the rest of Pakistan, the Provincial Assembly carries the authority to amend any laws regarding provincial subjects. This assembly does not have that authority. For example, the assembly has passed resolutions to increase the number of assembly seats but the federal government has ignored them and it cannot come to pass. 

Therefore, you can call this assembly dependent, paralyzed, toothless or whatever you wish to. It is directly under the clutches of the bureaucracy and directly under the clutches of the Ministry of Kashmir Affairs. 

QBM: If power isn’t with the assembly, then comrade where is it? 

EA:  Power, my friend, lies with the office of Force Command Northern Areas.  That is the highest post of the military in the area. 

Now, the administration of Pakistan over this area is confined to the context of the UNCIP (United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan) resolutions. According to [UNCIP resolutions], the Pakistani state has been given two responsibilities including 1) To assist the local government to run the affairs of the region 2) provide military assistance to protect key defence points, but that the military shall be under the control and authority of the local government of the region. But you see quite the opposite of that. Here you see that the local government is subservient to the wishes, demands and whims of the undeclared authority of the Force Command Northern Areas (FCNA) who has to be a major general. 

QBM: So, it’s the opposite!

EA: Yes. Even the Chief Secretary (who is the highest bureaucrat in the civil administration of GB) seeks approval and permission from him [Force Command Northern Areas]. It is sort of the same in all of Pakistan. Look at the position of various prime ministers, in all matters including foreign policy it is not the Prime Minister but the Army Chief who gives the statement and makes policy and so it is here too. 

This is a worst-type of colonial system where all matters are run by the bureaucracy in Islamabad and the establishment. This assembly, this government, this Chief minister and this governor are just puppets who only act on the directions of the bureaucracy and the establishment of Pakistan. I have neither read nor heard about such a system in existence anywhere else. I have only found similar examples when reading about the British colonial system. Nowhere in the current world is there so much of a controlled system.

A Mockery of Justice

QBM: Comrade, what about the judiciary?  What is the history of the system of courts in GB? Did the British institute any courts during their rule or have they been only established during and after Z.A. Bhutto’s rule? And in-between periods, was it only the political agent who held all judicial powers?

EA: During the British period, the region came under the rule of Maharaja of Kashmir. There was a high court in Kashmir, where people from GB could submit appeals.

QBM: Was it a high court for GB?

EA: No, it was the high court of Jammu and Kashmir in Srinagar. There had been several instances in which residents of GB from Gilgit, Astore and Baltistan submitted appeals there for cases of land disputes and such. But, as soon as GB was separated from Kashmir and came under the control of Pakistan, the latter introduced a new system. Under this system, the political agent, who later came to be known as the Resident Commissioner, was at the same time the head of the administration as well as the judiciary. So, he received appeals against death sentences but also ran administrative matters. 

Now, this changed a bit when Pakistan introduced judicial reforms in 1975 by transferring judicial powers from the Resident Commissioner – and separating them from the executive office – to a new office called Judicial Commissioner. The latter judge was also sent from Pakistan – Punjab or Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. He held all judicial powers, carrying the authority of the high court and supreme court of the region. He was appointed directly by the federal Ministry of Kashmir Affairs. So, several sessions court judges from different districts in Pakistan exercised power as Judicial Commissioner – supreme judicial authority – in GB, one after the other, until 1994 when another judicial reforms package was introduced. They instituted a Chief Court. It was called the Chief Court of Northern Areas. It had three judges in total with 1 Chief Judge and two judges. This went on until the reforms of 2009 when the number of judges in chief court were increased. However, the structure of the court and the system of appointment of judges remained the same, their thumb. 

As the interview was on-going a young lawyer entered and brought hot samosas wrapped in a brown bag and cups of tea in paper disposable cups.  As food was served, other lawyers entered and joined us.  I paused the recording, and the conversation became casual and jovial.  Baba Jan, who had been quietly sitting at the back of the room joined in and Ehsan Sahib changed from interviewee to a host.  After a few sips of tea and a samosa or two, anecdotes from those present Ehsan Sahib and I return to the interview. 

QBM: Okay, I have turned on the recorder…we can start. Please go on. 

EA: So, that is the legal aspect and the practical position of the assembly in terms of authority, which implies that [the creation and functioning of the assembly] has been and is a futile exercise. On the other hand, we also hold that the assembly does not represent the aspirations of the majority of the people or the 99 percent. The elections and the administration are run in an atmosphere that only leads to these corrupt people being chosen for office. There is absolutely no space for someone coming from the lower or working class to join the assembly. 

QBM: Right.

EA: Additionally, the election laws, the police, the judiciary and all other departments constituting the system replicate, protect and facilitate the system as a whole. So, we have reached the conclusion that this assembly is only there to elude the masses. The international community should be made aware of the fact that they [Pakistani state] are running the affairs of the region directly and we are not internally independent. 

People’s Assemblies and True Democracy

QBM: What is the alternative?  Is it public assemblies like the one you created with the Gilgit-Baltistan Action Committee? 

EA: The people saw for themselves during the protests from February to April 2014, they saw clearly that the members of the assembly, the bureaucracy and the government of Pakistan were on the other side together. So, we raised the slogan “Awaam k Masayil ka Hal Awaam k Apne Paas Hy” (The solution to the problems of the people are in the hands of the people). This fake assembly does not have any solutions. It has made laws only to suppress people and their rights, to trample the masses under their feet through law-making and to strengthen the administration. It has not made even a single law in favor of the people. We have no hopes attached to it for the future and so we condemned it. 

We said that we need to organize the people on the grassroots level, on the ground level, on the union council level, on the tehsil level and on the district level to take this movement ahead according to the demands of the people and strengthen it and expand it. The common person cannot enter the assembly, and the assembly is also occupied by the clutches of the colonial power so a common man cannot deliver for the people even if they become a part of the assembly. Without doing away with the clutches or with the corrupt and oppressive system, neither can the people be free nor can their resources and wealth stay under their control. 

You see that hundreds of contracts for exploitation of resources and minerals have been handed out to big capitalists from Pakistan and even to multi-national companies. Once the new government is formed, they would begin with mining. We think that a mass movement will emerge due to this. When people of a village will see that somebody from not amongst them has come to mine for minerals, they would see that their wealth is going away. Additionally, minerals are not the property of individuals here, they are collectively owned by the village. Take a look at the history, they are utilized collectively by the people of a village. Therefore, they would stand collectively.

Then there is the corridor [China Pakistan Economic Corridor/CPEC). The corridor will come piercing through the bosoms of our valleys and mountains and would destroy many things in its path. All of the investment is going there to Lahore, most of the 46 billion dollars. People here will not get their share, and they will only receive destruction. When people see the destruction and see that they are not getting their due share, they will stand against that as well. Some people have already started raising their voice. 

So, when people start standing against these [mining and CPEC] we should be prepared for it. In the case of the wheat subsidy movement, people started to hold small rallies, demonstrations, and protests in their villages during December and January 2014 but in an unorganized manner. To channelize them and organize them we met with them and called upon them leading to the creation of the Action Committee. We took suggestions from all comrades and friends. When the people got united, they saw that they had amassed great power. 

We will involve youth, workers and peasants from the grassroots level, and we will build a movement on that foundation. The movement which will imminently rise and for whom the state has started to draft and implement strict regulations for the purpose of suppression. 

Steadfast in Struggle

QBM: Can you tell us a bit more about the cases that you have faced due to your political resistance activities and defence of political freedoms?

EA:  I have been booked in a total of 16 FIRs. The first one was filed against me in 1983 during the Movement for the Restoration of Democracy.  I was locked up in the Liaqatabad police station [Karachi] along with 40-50 other political workers. The second time I was booked was in 1985 when we were posting a poster in Gilgit against Zia Ul Haq’s move to merge GB with Kashmir. And after that, there has been a string of cases. In the 1990s especially. In the 2000s we agitated against the Basha Dam and I was booked with an FIR, I was tortured a lot as well. In one move, which was a move to end my life basically, 7 FIRs were filed against me at the same time.

QBM: Who filed the cases?

EA: It was agencies. The military intelligence was behind them all. We discovered later that one of the cases filed in Gilgit police station by a youth from Astore…a friend who is a lawyer from Astore met him and asked why he filed it and he answered that he was assured of a grade 11 government office by the agencies if he did so. The guy who filed the case against me in Jutial police station, was given 14000 rupees. In Skardu the agency employees did it directly. No independent individual or a member of any political or religious organization did it. All were agents of the intelligence agencies.

QBM: I have heard comrade, that there was an announcement from the Jamia Masjid of Skardu in your favour saying you haven’t hurt any religious sentiments.

EA: At night, wall-chalking was done against me in Skardu, friends in Skardu saw it and they were alarmed. The agencies had used an agent of theirs to do the wall-chalking. So, the friends then went on to collect information amongst each other and informed the Masjid and religious organizations of the truth. The agencies had planned to instigate protests against me, but the friends’ efforts curtailed it. 

Then, the central Shia Agha, Agha Rahat Hussaini, was contacted by the agencies and the Imam of the central mosque in Danyore and Sheikh Nayyar, Imam of the Nomal Mosque, were directly contacted by the Military intelligence to issue fatwas against me and leave the rest to them. It was a huge conspiracy against me. When my lawyer friends who were in Shia organizations heard about it they accompanied me to Agha Rahat’s. When we got there, the Military intelligence head in Gilgit was briefing him before us and he went away after an hour’s discussion. 

We went in. I did not really talk to him. The other lawyers then briefed him and everybody there told him not to issue the Fatwa. And he then told the other Imams to not file FIR or issue a Fatwa. We found out later that Sheikh Nayyar had prepared a fatwa before our meeting. So, I escaped very narrowly. If the fatwa was issued, I would have been dead at the hands of an extremist.

The Question of Organization

QBM: Why is it that on the one hand you have created students’ organizations and political parties and worked in political and revolutionary parties and on the other hand you have organized Action Committees. What is the relationship between the revolutionary organization and the action committee?

EA: At the time of the wheat issue of 2014, we unfortunately lacked a revolutionary organization. However, even if we had a revolutionary organization, it would have still been necessary to organize the Action Committee as it was formed around a common issue of the masses. So, it is necessary to connect everyone together to build a movement, although, if there exists a revolutionary party at such a time, it leads the movement to success and ensures it. In movements everyone is involved, and everyone has to be involved and that is how it gains strength.

QBM: About people’s assembly, do you think that people’s assemblies are enough or is it necessary to have a revolutionary party as well?

EA: Look, people’s assemblies are what we suggest but people’s assemblies always have people from different ideologies and interests. So, it is necessary to have a revolutionary party which spearheads the assembly in the right direction. This was how it was before the Russian revolution. There already were soviets, workers’ councils, soldiers’ councils and peasant councils. But if the Bolshevik Party had not been there, the revolution probably wouldn’t have succeeded to gain power for socialism. 

I turned the recorder off, and we chatted more freely. Something about the recorder makes everyone conscious and formal. Ehsan mentioned that a local capitalist class did not exist in Gilgit Baltistan until recently as there was no industry, but that hoteliers, transporters and heads of international NGO’s were slowly forming a bourgeois class of sorts. I was still confused about property ownership in the area, and he explained that mountains with gold, mineral and precious stones belonged to the nearby villages and that it was all collectively owned.  Water and land were distributed equally, and inequality has appeared only recently as people have sold holdings. Still, it is largely an egalitarian society. He explained that the Government of Pakistan, as an intermediate for international capital, was claiming community lands and future battles would be fought over this issue between the lower classes of Gilgit Baltistan and the Pakistani Riyasat.

I thanked Ehsan for his time, told him of my profound respect for him and said my goodbyes.